Transcript | Ep. 107: Survival of the Thickest with Michelle Buteau

[CLIP - Netflix special]

Michelle: Let me tell you something. I am a faller, OK? I fall all the time. Look at my body, OK? I have not seen my feet since the seventh grade. These tits, it's like a fleshy IKEA shelf. Truly, I cannot see my feet, my whole body is shaped like a drumstick emoji. You see this shit. It's a drumstick emoji! For real, she meaty on top, nubby on the bottom, fucking delicious.

[Theme music]

Caroline: Cristen, this episode of Unladylike, we are basking in the glow of one of my favorite comedians — the hilarious, weird, wonderful, and warm MICHELLE BUTEAUUUU.

Cristen: Airhorns. Airhorns. Airhorns. So y’all just heard a clip from Michelle’s FIRST standup special, Welcome to Buteaupia, now streaming on Netflix. And when we got on Zoom with Michelle, it felt like she was doing a standup set just for us!

Caroline: So if we could just get started with having you introduce yourself, just tell us who you are or where you live and what you do.

Michelle: Oh, my God. So my name is Michelle Buteau, spelled like bureau, but with a T, get into it, it's the first time I've ever said that. I am a stand-up comedian that really loves to sit. I love happiness and joy and black girl magic. I love heated yoga classes, but not too hot. You know, I don't need to feel like I'm in an episode of Naked and Afraid, like a 40 day challenge. I yeah my love of rotisserie chicken, I just love to like finger fuck like a very juicy breast. I'm so sorry. Actually, I'm not sorry. And I do like dipping sauces. What else can I say about myself? This is terrible. This is why I've never done like a blind date, even just like any like Internet dating situations, I'm always like overexplaining and you like Internet dating back in the day when it first started, you had to like, write a fucking thesis. I'm just now how why is this about me in seven parts. Now it's just like a body type. And I've already decided that I'm a drumstick emoji, but we already know that from my special Welcome to Beautopia available on Netflix right now! Did I answer your question?

Cristen: That is maybe the best, greatest self-introduction we have ever had on Unladylike

Cristen: Caroline, I stand by that statement. And we’ve had some pretty incredible guest self-intros.

Caroline: Yeah, and Cristen, I will stand by this statement: Welcome to Buteaupia is a fucking delight. Like, I give it five out of five unladylike middle fingers.

Cristen: Well those middle fingers are well earned. Michelle has been doing standup for 18 years now. I first heard her a few years ago on Two Dope Queens, and she was a fucking riot. But lately, she’s been popping up all over the place.

Caroline: Yeah, maybe y’all saw her last year playing Ali Wong’s childhood best friend in Always Be My Maybe

CLIP: Always Be My Maybe

Sasha: How you doing?

Veronica: Pregnant as hell. And I am so mad at Kate Middleton. I was driving to work this morning thinking about her taking those pictures on the hospital steps, like what 3 hours after she had a baby. And she had that royal diaper on. You know she had that diaper on.

Sasha: I don’t want you to talk about that stuff in front of the customers.

Veronica: Cool, cool, cool.

Cristen: She’s currently starring in the First Wives Club reboot on BET+ and hosting fan fave isolation reality show The Circle on Netflix.

CLIP: The Circle

Michelle: It’s been less than a day in the circle. And already one of our 8 players Alanna has been blocked and denied that 100K. Oo, it’s a jungle in there!

Caroline: AND she’s raising twins!

Cristen: AND and, she's got a new book out, too, called Survival of the Thickest. And just like she does in her standup — Michelle bares all today about the 3B’s: her body, her boobs, and her babies.

[Stinger]

Caroline: Michelle grew up in New Jersey, the only child of a Jamaican mom and Haitian dad. In Survival of the Thickest she writes, “We were the light-skinned family no one could quite put a finger on. We were the white sheep, with weird accents, exotic food, and loud music no one’s ever heard of.”

Cristen: So Michelle, what kind of girl were you raised to be?

Michelle: Ooh, I wish my mom would answer this shit right now! She would love to answer this. I was raised to be a polite young woman, you know, I could definitely have an opinion, but don't be too opinionated. Don't laugh too loud, definitely don't burp, don't talk about sex, don't be sexual. Don’t, you know - I felt like growing up, I was like a secretary on Mad Men. It was just a lot of French rolls and turtlenecks. Truly, my mom would straighten my hair, cover my freckles and take me to church and forced me to like, shake a bunch of people's hands and you know just say random boring shit, and I just want to be like loud and make eye contact and just like throw my head back and cackle and I just, yeah, I felt like I was really trying to be something I wasn't and that there was something wrong with me because I wasn't like them.

Cristen: And when you say “like them,” are you referring to your - your parents?

Michelle: Yeah, I mean, mostly my mom and her family and her friends. I just wasn't like them. Everybody was so polite and meek and quiet and would go to the kitchen and just to cook and clean and just be like boys will be boys and just, you know, would never really stand in their power or, you know, force an issue. And I'm like. Oh, I can't wait to grow up and get out of this house so I can do whatever I want, like a fuckin Puerto Rican version of Footloose, which has probably been done already, I think.

Cristen: So your new book is called Survival of the Thickest. And Michelle, what does “thick” mean to you?

Michelle: Oooh. What a good ass question girl! You know, thick is sort of a state of mind, thick is a category where you kind of have to make your own category. People like to say things like you're thin or you're fat or whatever you have problem areas. But sometimes you just thick. Sometimes, you know, you just got some more meat on your bones than others and there's nothing wrong with that. Thick is a celebration of whatever gut or back fat or whatever the fuck you've got going on. Like extra like top titty meat or like in between the thighs, like you could just like start a fire with some corduroy pants. Thick. Delicious. Yum.

Cristen: Michelle could’ve used that kind of celebration growing up. When she turned 12, she was dying to get a brand-new purple bike for her birthday. But instead, surprise! She got boobs.

Michelle: I really felt like Tom Hanks in Big. Like it was crazy. I really felt like I went to a circus, and then I put like a quarter like a Zoltar machine and woke up with tittes. you know, I went to Catholic school and everything was button down and, oh, you know what happens when you have titties and it's buttoned down and one's always bigger than the other. So. God, it was it was crazy, I'm like trying to hold on to this button. Like Liam Neeson trying to save his daughter in Taken. Oh, my God, how am I going to do this? And yeah, and that was just a wild transition because, you know, you're still playing with Barbies and you are trying to figure out how you can watch Electric Company or whatever the fuck I was watching. And now I'm walking to 7-Eleven to get a Slurpee and I'm getting catcalled by older men just having just sort of receiving this unwanted sexual attention. And it's gross, and it’s just fucking gross to be objectified at such a young age and not even to have someone explain what that is to you, because especially going to Catholic school, all you know is “don't have sex.” That's it. Don't have sex. You're going to die. Don't do it. Don't masturbate. You’re gonna go to hell. Like that's it. No one ever teaches you like. How do you walk down the street and handle getting cat called when you are just trying to get home to do your geometry homework.

Caroline: Did getting boobs overnight change how you saw yourself or felt about yourself?

Michelle: Yeah, for sure. I thought something was wrong with me, I didn't look like the other girls. And, you know, at that age, all you want to do is sort of like fit in with everyone, you don't want to stand out and you especially don't want your body to stand out. And so I'm just like. If we're going to Macy's and we're trying to find something for me to wear at church and I have to go into the ladies section, it's just like, well, I guess just like the cross I have to bear, you know, and everything was just black all the time. And there were shoulder pads and I was like 14. I just felt like a Puerto Rican Johnny Cash. I'm just like, what is this? You know, when Wal-Mart and Old Navy came out with, like, maxi dresses, I'm like “Ah! I am Beyonce in Dreamgirls! Look at me!” Just like tripping over, like, so much cloth, always with a wedgie. Beyond.

Caroline: Well speaking - speaking of titties. Tell us about having big boobs is like rocking a super short haircut, as you put it in the book.

Michelle: Oh, my God, that is so funny. Look, having big titties is like having a Sinead O'Connor buzz cut because you have to dress around it, it's like, well, man, if you wear a V-neck, it's like, wow, she's really asking for it, look at that whore with that top tittle meat your chest looks like ass crack. And if you cover it, it's just like did she just come off a compound somewhere in Utah? What's wrong with her? Why won't she celebrate her body? They're also so heavy. So if I'm walking down the street and I'm hot and I can feel a little rash under my titty, starting to fucking grow, and a guy is just like, “Smile, mama.” It's just like, do you want to have an extra 13 pounds on your chest or I wish you did. And then I can come up to you and be like, why aren't you smiling? It's heavy. You know, I think my special I really want ass wiping money. Like, I just want someone to wipe my ass if anything happens to me. And that is true. But I also would love someone to just like carry my tits around because lord knows I'm done. You know what I mean? Like I used to name them like Muffie and Buffy, but now, like, I'm just going to call them like misogyny and like patriarchy.

Cristen: I’m renaming my A cups unconscious sexism, because they might be hard to see but they are definitely there. Especially when it’s cold, if you know what I’m saying.

Caroline: We’re gonna take a quick break.

Cristen: When we come back, Michelle Buteau makes a life-changing titty decision.

Caroline: Don’t bust out!

[Stinger]

Cristen: We’re back with Michelle Buteau, who is so charming y’all, even her Zoom audio delays are memorable!

Michelle: Hello?

Caroline: Did it change how you saw yourself? Oh sorry — there’s a delay!

Cristen: We’re here!

Caroline: We’re here! We should probably say there is a delay. So if you hear a weird silence, it's not us just sitting here staring. I promise.

Michelle: OK, I felt very lonely for a minute.

Cristen: Oh.

Caroline: Oh, no!

Michelle: Hello?! Did you hear the panic in my voice?

Caroline: Cristen I STILL break into a nervous sweat about sending Michelle into a panic!

Cristen: Is it weird that I’m still laughing about it? So when it was time to look for colleges, Michelle wanted to get out of the Jersey burbs. She chose St. Thomas, a university in Miami, and the location change was liberating.

Michelle: Miami and South Florida is just like one of those places where it's like no other place in America. So many different cultures that celebrate their bodies - was fucking wild. It is like a little. Do you remember like that scene in Hustler's where they go to the home girl goes to the back room and everyone's just Lizzo's out her tits and the flute and then, like, Cardi B has like a chocolate cake and everyone's walking around just like completely comfortable with their bodies and, like, stiletto fucking shoes, whatever the fuck. That's what Miami was like. Everyone was just like hella comfortable. All the ownership, you know, didn't matter if you had a front wedgie, which I call a fedgie, a back wedgie. Yeah, it was just like a wonderful, wild time, especially in college, where I just needed to see people that look like me, and that didn't look like me, love on their bodies.

Cristen: But Michelle's boobs still felt like a burden. Literally! One boob was a triple D, and the other was a E cup. They were physically uncomfortable. So much so that she eventually decided to get a breast reduction, and it was a GAME CHANGER.

Michelle: I felt free, I felt like this is what it's like on the other side, I felt like I was like 10 years old again in some respect, where I'm just like, I can just run. I can go running and not worry about how slow or fast I go. I can go into a store and just put something on. That's never happened before. I can go into a bus or a train or into like a crowded hallway and not hit my tits up on somebody's back and be like, “Excuse me.” I remember one time going to church with my parents at the end of Catholic mass. The priest waits at the door and shakes her hand. And I remember going to shake the priest's hands and he hit my boobs by accident. And he's like, “I'm so sorry, child.” I'm like, “You're forgiven, father.” But he was like a thing that I had to, like, explain to people like, “Oh, I'm so sorry, I hit your tits.” I'm just like, it's OK. I'm used to it. I don't even feel at this point because I'm dead inside! Just kidding. Yeah. I just felt free and then like, I didn't have this thing I had to worry about.

Caroline: South Beach might’ve been a body positivity haven for Michelle, but that wasn’t always the case on campus. In Survival of the Thickest, Michelle recounts a college professor who actively shot down her on screen dreams.

Michelle: I mean, you know, again, this is Miami, right, where everybody on TV that the journalist looks like Sofia Vergara. And so I wanted to be a journalist and because I love being creative and production and I love storytelling, so I was like this is my thing. And entertainment reporting just came out and I'm just like, if I could be on E.T. Ah! That’d be a fucking dream! And so we went around the class and the professor wanted us to say what our major was. And so I did. And he said, you know, “I got to tell you, you're just simply too fat to be on camera.” And I didn't question him. I didn't you know do anything. I just kind of felt embarrassed. But also just like, OK. Right I didn't have the I didn't have the audacity of hope to be like, “You know what, professor, fuck you. I'm going to go out and do it.” You know, there's no YouTube yet, but I'm going to start a channel somewhere. I just sort of believed people. So I just sort of like. I was definitely happy and had my opinions, but wasn't opinionated. Didn't want to rock the boat and didn't think that I could do something for myself. Just thought, you know, you get a job, you put money in your account, you get married, you live in an apartment with beige carpet and white blinds, and you go to the Rainforest Cafe every weekend, like that's what you do. And there's nothing wrong with that. But that just wasn't my journey. And I really believed it was for so long.

Cristen: So for years, Michelle worked behind the camera - pursuing work in TV editing and production. It wasn’t until 2001 that she took her first big step toward making her own lane. She was in her mid 20s, working as a local TV news producer in New York. She’d been considering standup, and her friends were always encouraging her … but she just didn’t think a comedy career was sustainable.

Caroline: Then, 9/11 happened. Michelle was working 16-hour shifts editing horrific footage, reliving the trauma day after day. It was horrible! Michelle was like - fuck this, I might as well do the shit I actually want to do. So, on Sept. 14, 2001, Michelle did her first stand-up set. And, she’s been doing it ever since.

Michelle: It took time to get good at it, but I liked it from the beginning and I realized, damn, this is home and this is where I always want to be, and how could I ever fucking let myself not do it simply because nobody looked like me on TV. Be the change you want to see, even if no one is listening, it's like fucking for you and you keep doing it and doing it until somebody wants to listen. And you're just like, oh yeah, I got some experience doing it because I've been doing it by myself in a corner of a fucking room. And so I'm a late bloomer when it comes to making my own lane and believing in myself and, you know, letting people have their opinions of me and not letting it affect me, And I don't know if that professor is still alive, but I hope he has a Netflix password because fuck him!

Cristen: We’re gonna take a quick break.

Caroline: When we return, Michelle shares what it’s like to get on stage and make people laugh while going through IVF and processing pregnancy loss.

Cristen: Stick around.

[Stinger]

Caroline: So what has it been like to raise not one, but two babies amid a pandemic lockdown?

Michelle: It's wild, but it's good. I don't know anything else, though. I don't know what it's like to have one. Like maybe for like a half hour when one is still sleeping and one's up. I'm just like, this is nothing like. No, like I. I used to judge Kevin's mom in Home Alone for forgetting her kids. All them kids, all them bags, I get it. Kevin, you better figure it out.

Cristen: We’re back with comedian and working mom, Michelle Buteau. Michelle and her husband have twin toddlers, Hazel and Otis.

Caroline: For five years, Michelle tried to get pregnant via IVF — But after four miscarriages, she and her husband decided to pursue surrogacy. She talks about the experience in her Netflix special ‘Welcome to Buteaupia.’

CLIP - Netflix special

Michelle: You know, I was sad, I was sad that I couldn't carry, but so happy somebody else could, you know? I decided to make the best out of it because you have to because life is still happening. So when my surrogate was waiting to go into labor, my husband and I were at the bar next door having a glass of wine. And Oprah says “You can have it all, but not the same time,” but I think you can because I did that shit.

Cristen: We do want to talk about your IVF and surrogacy journey a little bit. Could you share, starting with IVF, like what that process was like for you and sort of how it affected your relationship with your own body?

Michelle: IVF is a wild one. You know, you go through stages, at least I did where I was like, I have to do IVF. That's fucking sad and unbelievable. So I had to mourn the fact that I couldn't conceive naturally. And then when I was in it, I'm like, this is fucking expensive, but tick, tick, tock, let's go. Because it's supposed to work. And then you forget that because you're putting these injections in your leg and your arm and your stomach or wherever else you can find, that's not like bruised and sore you're like, OK, that hurts, but let's keep it going. And then you're out and you're just talking to someone and you start crying for no reason and you're like, what the fuck is wrong with me? And then your husband leaves crumbs on the countertop after he makes a sandwich and you're like. I want a divorce. But you know what I mean you're like, oh, yes, I am full of hormones and then you, for me, at least, it was a stage where I kept getting pregnant and losing the pregnancies and my other friends that got pregnant when I was pregnant, it's like. They were able to carry to term, and I didn't so like I'll still see their kids and be like, oh, that one would have been this age that. And so it's like an ongoing reminder. But it's also one of those things where. Any time you get over the fucking mountain, you just have to be like, fuck. I am so strong and I am so much more compassionate and empathetic to like anybody going through anything fucking hard. Especially when it comes to their bodies. But it sucks and you also feel like the government is punishing you, like sometimes being - it feels like with health care and being female, like you're already a preexisting condition because you're a woman.

Cristen: Yeah, and I didn’t realize until hearing your story that pursuing surrogacy comes with so many legal hoops. Like some states they don’t allow non-relatives to be surrogates. So at what point did you decide to pursue surrogacy, and were you and your husband kind of aware of all the hoops that you were going to have to jump through?

Michelle: No idea. But it was such a wild time for the both of us, because it felt like. For five years, trying to conceive was just being in a panic room, and as soon as we felt like we felt like we found a clue to get to the next stage, it was like, no, no, no, no, you're still stuck in this room. Keep going. And so even with surrogacy to realize, well, after the fourth miscarriage, my husband was like, stop doing this to you because - to your body, because I need my wife back, like. You know, I think he was like, how many times I pick this poor woman up off the floor and then jump to the airport for her to get on a plane to do shows. So it was just. You know, just swimming in a dryer of emotions, and so when we finally decided on surrogacy, we were like, OK, this is what the next thing is, and we'll just take it like day by day, meeting by meeting, check by check. And then, like, you know, it was really overwhelming if I really had to if I really sit down and think about it, but, you know, he was so positive, which was so fucking wonderful, and even my friends like Jordan Carlos and his wife, you know, they’d always say stuff like. You know, Michelle, there can be a there can be a happy ending, there can always be something good, so just hold on to that. And I did. And it was really important to have friends just say, “Shit can work out.”

Cristen: But not everybody in Michelle’s life was so compassionate about the surrogacy.

CLIP - Netflix special

Michelle: You know. It’s always an awkward conversation to have when you run into somebody because they're like, what's your birth story? I'm like, expensive. But I ran into one of my neighbors in New York. He's just like “Oh how y'all been?” I'm like, “Good man. We just welcomed these boy girl twins.” And he's like, oh, you know what. I don't mean to offend, I said, “But you gonna. Give it to me,” and he's like, “I know a really good diet if you want to take the baby weight off.” I said, “That is so funny. You say that because we actually had a surrogate.And then he goes, what's a surrogate? I said, oh, my God, this is why we need more federal funding for education so people know what the fuck is going on outside of your two mile radius. I'm fucking done. Let's get educated. Ok, it matters. So I'm explaining it to him, I was like, “Our DNA. She's a carrier. A miracle happened. We have a family, she's an angel walking on earth —” I see his eyes going and he goes, oh, is it like Handmaid's Tale? And I knew I had a choice. So I say, “Yes, exactly like Handmaid's Tale. It's exactly like it.”

Caroline: After going through so much to have her twins while also breaking out on the comedy stage and on screen, Michelle has zero fucks to left to give

Michelle: Yeah, It’s just like, take the shame out of shit. I'm so tired of people shaming people for what they want or don't want, what they are going through, like I would get so much unsolicited advice, like maybe if you lost weight, maybe if you didn't work as much, maybe if you didn't travel as much. Like, you know, you're not even a doctor. You know what I mean? You're not even a doctor. You can't even get through a Zumba class. How the fuck do they tell me I need to get. Get the fuck outta here.

Cristen: How did you go through all all of this during this time period and still get up on stage and be hilarious?

Michelle: I don't know, I just feel like, you know, stand up. Yeah, I'm there to make people happy, make them laugh. But it was also just as fucking big and wild and important for me to be up there, too, because I have so much fun doing stand-up. And I feel like if people don't have fun, then that's your bad because you are paying for the stand up and I'm getting paid for it. It’s just like. And a sense of normalcy, you know, just having something to do. There were times where I'm just like, do I have to take this 5 a.m. flight to L.A. to pitch a show that I just fucking wrote? And don't forget my doctor's notes and all my needles and fucking put my progesterone suppositories on ice - dry ice so they don't melt like it was fucking wild. But, you know, when you want something, you just get it done no matter what.

Cristen: What - what's your relationship with your body like these days, sort of going full circle?

Michelle: Yeah, you know, I feel like with my body and also with my mind and my spirit, there's always going to be a to do list and that's what life is. And, you know, you just don't wake the fuck up and be like, oh, my God, I have these Kim Kardashian fucking hips and waist, you know what I mean, it's like always a thing, and for me, it's just acceptance. You know, I've been through a lot, I've never been heavier, but I've never been happier. And I feel finally like settled into all the parts of my body. I have a dope partner who doesn't mind lifting up my belly to find my puss when he needs it, and that's fucking amazing you know, I couldn't carry my children, but I worked hard for those embryos. Five fucking years of injecting myself with crazy, just to like have these beautiful beings walk the earth. I'm so happy I got to finally meet these souls. And I just feel like, you know, man, this is such a fucking dope place. I wish somebody would have told me when I'm 23, I would just, you know, be this bitch right now, just like happy and healthy and just like lucky to fucking be alive and not on a ventilator.

Caroline: You can check out Michelle Buteau’s book Survival of the Thickest wherever books are sold. Plus, find Michelle on Netflix. I mean I swear, she’s in every show on there now..go support!

Cristen: You can also follow her on Twitter and IG @michellebuteau and you can find us on instagram, facebook and Twitter @unladylikemedia. You can also support Cristen and me by joining our Patreon; you’ll get weekly bonus episodes, listener advice and our undying love at patreon.com/unladylikemedia.

Caroline: Nora Ritchie is the senior producer of Unladylike. Gianna Palmer is our story editor. Shruti Marathe transcribes our tape. Production help from Camila Salazar. Our music is by Flamingo Shadow, Amit May Cohen and Sarah Tudzin. Mixing is by Andi Kristins. Sound design and additional music is by Casey Holford and Andi Kristins. Executive producers are Peter Clowney, Daisy Rosario and Unladylike Media.

Cristen: This podcast was created by your hosts, Cristen Conger

Caroline: And Caroline Ervin of Unladylike Media.

Cristen: Next week on the podcast …it’s US! Caroline and I are interviewing each other about 2020, mental health, problematic white ladies, and even our own hangups...It gets real!

Caroline: But Cristen Conger, how are you?

Cristen: Today, I am good. And what does good mean, good means that. I'm. I'm not in an anxiety spiral. I am. I'm feeling very grateful today. For me, it's the biggest challenge is maintaining perspective, because there are a thousand things that I'm not doing that I wish I was doing. And there are a thousand ways that I feel like I am not living up enough to the the politics and the ideals that we espouse on Unladylike. And that's why I say that I'm doing well today, because I'm not in one of those spirals and it really is mental health, you know, such a day to day and sometimes like minute to minute thing. I was in a spiral last night and was very grateful just to wake up this morning feeling clear. So that's that's how I am. That's a long answer to a question, but also how do you answer that question this year without either just like *hahha* or like a thesis like I just delivered?

Caroline: You don’t want to miss this extra special episode — it’s the last one of the season and of 2020!! Make sure you’re subscribed to Unladylike. Find us in stitcher, spotify, apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Cristen: And remember, got a problem?

Caroline: Get Unladylike.