Transcript | Sexxxy Feet

CRISTEN: Okay, I am going off of airplane mode hopping into old Google Incognito and taking my very first trip to a little website called FootFinder — FeetFinder, not FootFinder. FeetFinder is the easiest way for verified users to buy and sell feet pictures and videos in a safe and secure environment.

Popular categories: high heels, soles, nail polish, socks, lotion, pedicure. I am dying to know what's happening in the socks category. After a long day, had to take off my cute new fall socks and rest my tootsies. Well, that one costs $10. Let's take a look.

Oh, free gallery. Oh, here we go.

Well, why am I seeing someone's face?

Alright, I'm not here for that.

And now for a little compare and contrast, let's pop over to wikiFeet shall. wikiFeet, aesthetically, looks at first glance a lot like Wikipedia. So right off the bat, wikiFeet is giving a lot more, just geek. These are geeks who love feet. Feet of the day. Feet of the week!

Well, alright. They never miss an opportunity to spotlight some feet, I guess. Happy birthday to the feet belonging to Jenna Marbles, Heidi Montag and Queen Letizia of Spain. I mean, ok. This, wow. They're, I mean, they're, I guess they're organized.

So wikiFeet bills itself as the Collaborative Celebrity Feet website. So our options on wikiFeet are celebrities, videos, dating platform, feet of the year. Wow. They've got feet of the day, feet of the week, feet of the year. Gift shop. Guild. The Guild is a way to let members moderate the site's comment section. Before approving a comment, you must make sure it doesn't contain any sexual refs, hateful, racist or derogatory expressions. You must not reject a comment just because you don't agree with it. People are allowed to voice their opinions as long as they're respectful.

Wow. I can only imagine what that means in wikiFeet comments. I mean, I don't know what else to say, but…there's a lot to unpack here.

[UNLADYLIKE THEME SONG]

Cristen: This is Unladylike. I'm Cristen, and I am not body shaming myself when I tell y'all that I am not feet model material, ok? I mean,  I did not see any FeetFinder tags for bunions or crooked0-ass toes. Um, although I, I do admit I didn't scroll deep enough to see if orthotics is in there. If people are into watching someone slip a fresh pair of insoles in some sensible sneakers, then maybe I do have a shot.

Since the secondary theme of this episode is apparently me sharing personal details about myself that no one asked for, I know how long I've been thinking about foot pics because it started when a reality star from 90 Day Fiance started selling her foot pics, and then all of a sudden Bravo stars we're selling their foot picks and working it in as their storylines on shows. And look, long time unladies, you know, I love garbage television. Uh, it's too late to apologize for it. For example, on Vanderpump Rules, which is a Bravo reality show that's truly not worth explaining, one of the stars needs $30,000 to fix her botched nose job.

So a bunch of her friends get together and they hire a photographer to take pictures of their feet to sell on feet finder to help her raise money. 

[VANDERPUMP RULES CLIP]

Speaker 1: Are you guys selling pictures of your feet on the internet? 

Speaker 2: the only thing that we messed up on that we saw was that one of the categories was nail clippings. I feel like there's a limit here. 

Speaker 1: The limit doesn't not exist. Let's get all our toasties ready. 

Speaker 3: Ok. I've done a lot of weird stuff. Never did I think I should add to my resume selling feet pics.

Speaker 1: I dont think I’ve ever touched feet with any of my friends before. Touching feet is kind of sexy. 

Speaker 2: Oh, that's perfect. That's a money shot. 

CRISTEN: Then of course there are all of the memes. Shout out to unlady Elizabeth who, who DMed me one that still makes me laugh. Uh, it says how close I am to quitting my job and selling my feet pics on FeetFinder, and it's just a close up of two very long fake nails just Almost touching. It's great. Um, and as someone with busted hooves, I also reached out to Unladylike patrons to see whether any of their feet had caught anyone's eye, and Brenna told me, “A girl I used to work with once told me she went on a date with a person who pulled out a sheet cake at the end of the night and asked her to step in it so they could lick the cake off. She politely declined.”

But Brennan did not tell me whether this coworker got to at least take a slice of cake home with her. And is it weird that I'm now craving sheet cake? Please don't answer that.

Now, before we get more into foot fetishes, I just need to briefly mention the gender baggage I brought in to this episode. My personal hottake coming in was, sure foot fetishes make sense because we actually pay a lot of gendered attention to feet. I mean, if we think about manly feet, really, I mean really the only aesthetic standard is that they are big enough to not attract suspicion about their dick size.

And for women, you know, it's, it's that old meme about tap dancing backwards and heels. Ladylike feet are petite. Yes, size matters. They're also hairless, moisturized, toenail-polished. I mean, not necessarily sexualized, but they are technically ready at a moment's notice to be licked and flicked.

I mean, hello Cinderella. Like, how did her wicked step sisters finally get theirs when their big old ski feet betrayed them and wouldn't cram into that size five glass slipper? And even today, it can be hard to find women's shoes above size 10. But talking about foot fetishes, and for what it's worth, I can guarantee you that there is someone on wikiFeet right now who would be all about those stepsisters hooves. There's truly a lid for every pot and a foot for every podophile.

Yes. The technical term for foot fetishism is podophilia, P O D O P H I L I A, which means foot fetishists are technically podophiles, and that is unfortunate.

That is unfortunate, and there is nothing — I just wanna be clear — there is nothing inherently wrong or disordered with having a fetish or a foot fetish. I mean, foot fetishes in the world of fetishes, they're pretty common. Aside from boobs and butts, feet and toes are the most commonly fetishized anatomy.

And by foot fetish, I mean sexual arousal by feet, and often with a fetish, sexual satisfaction is dependent on the object, in this case, the feet. And sometimes I learned it can be your own feet, which I cannot relate, but I do admire that. That kind of sounds like a special talent. More often though, it's arousal by other people's feet, and that can include: looking at feet, smelling, massaging, licking and flicking, playing footsy, full blown foot jobs. Getting stepped on. Getting kicked, like whatever you can do with feet, it fits.

Something else that defied my preconceived notions, my gender baggage I walked in with, was that feet of all genders are fetishized. As far as foot fetishists go, there is a gender gap, though. So if we are comparing cis men and women, foot fetishes are a lot more common among queer and straight men. Less so among queer women, and least of all, among cis straight women, which does make me wonder if there is some kind of connection there between the, the beating that cis straight women's feet are conditioned to take and the way that we do or don't perceive any kind of sexuality or sexual connection to our feet.

I was also surprised to see that foot fetishes were slightly more common among queer men, which just goes to show how much the wikiFeet-ification of foot fetishes has perhaps warped my brain. Or maybe this is also just something that I am learning about truly for the first time.

So all of my preconceived ideas are being challenged, and I like that. That's why we are here.

We're also here to find out why. Why though fetishize feet of all things? Like boobs, buts, genitals, all of that of course makes plenty of sense as to why we would really be into it. As for feet, it might have something to do with our brain wiring. There's a neurologist named Vallana Ramashandren, who studied phantom limb syndrome and found that a lot of people who had lost a foot could get sexually aroused just by thinking about that missing foot. And it turns out that the part of our brain that detects genital stimulation is right by the part that detects feeling in our feet. So Ram Sharin suggests that this could explain why a lot of people enjoy having their feet pleasured.

Now, it doesn't necessarily explain the attraction to feet. For that, I think there's more of a psychological explanation, which is the same explanation really for why most fetishes happen, and it's pretty simple. Our brains create what is called a learned association between an object — in this case, feet or maybe shoes, maybe socks, maybe panty hose, you get it — our brains create a connection between that and sexual pleasure, and it can fire off kind of instantly or build up over time and exposure.

And again, fetishes are not inherently deviant or dangerous. In fact, a few years ago, a foot fetishist made news for debunking an alleged bathtub selfie of Alexandria Ocasio Cortez.

And how about that for a cliff hanger while we take a quick break!

[AD BREAK]

CRISTEN: We're back.

It's early 2019. AOC has just been sworn into Congress and Republicans are truly losing their shit about it. They're trying to slut-shame her over dancing on a rooftop in college and other slut behaviors. And around this same time, someone posted a bathtub selfie to Reddit claiming that it was AOC.

Now all you see in the photo are a pair of petite feet propped up on the side of the tub and a hand holding a vape in the foreground, you could supposedly. See her boobs. If you zoomed in on the reflection in the tub faucet and all, I mean, that is a lot of work to see some titties, but an Eagle Eye Wiki, feet contributor called bullshit.

One of the toes was slightly bent and that did not match up with AOCs foot picks on Wiki. They told Vice, “I've sucked enough toes in my life to recognize when something doesn't look right.” And thank you for your service and for that incredible quote.

Now, in case you're wondering, the feet actually belong to Sydney Leathers, and AOC’s wikiFeet rating is a four out of five, Nice Feet. Good for her.

I would say there are two household names in foot fetishism. One is Quentin Tarantino and, sorry y'all, I'm just not gonna talk about him, ok? The other is wikiFeet. Yes, there is FeetFinder and RateMyFeet and InstaFeet. But as far as the pop cultural mainstreaming of foot fetishes, wikiFeet is it.

The site was launched in 2008 by an Israeli developer named Eli Oser, and Oser traces his own foot fetish, which he prefers to call “foot appreciation” back to a very formative screening of Nightmare on Elm Street. That's the one. He saw it when he was 13 and kept rewinding to see the scene where the characters' feet, I guess, are on display. Oser wanted only one kind of feet on wikiFeet, feet belonging to female celebrities.

So in order to upload a photo to wikiFeet, the person is supposed to be at least 17 and have an IMDB page, which I guess now qualifies as being a celebrity. He also uploaded the site's first 6,000 photos — dot, dot, dot, dot, dot — and it didn't really take long for fellow podophiles to find wikiFeet. And not too long after that, wikiFeet found its way back to the celebrities it fetishized.

Here's Elizabeth Banks on The Talk in 2015. 

[THE TALK CLIP]

Speaker 1: Um, there are people out there who have this fetish. This is really, I never would know this, a fetish with your bare feet. 

Speaker 2: Oh, my, your producer told me this yesterday. I had never heard of this either. You have a, 

Speaker 1: No. There's a website Wiki feet that contains hundreds of images of your feet.

Speaker 2: Really? 

Speaker 1: Yes. They submit and adore your Feet, what up with your feet? 

Speaker 2: I, I, I mean, I, I have OK feet, you know. Ok. You wanna? 

Crowd: Yeah. Let's see. Yes. Take feet. Take off the shoe. Yes. Take out.

Speaker 1: You just added more pictures to the collections. 

CRISTEN: Feet pics. Finally, these were nudes celebrities could laugh about, you know? wikiFeet's whole brand is a PG fetish site. Like X-rated comments and pics aren't allowed. The wikiFeet Guild goes through looking for anything that might draw too much sexual attention, but it's, you know, they're just not saying the quiet part out loud.

And especially now that there is a men's wikiFeet as well. And apparently Elon Musk has horribly rated feet, so take that, ya billionaire. The wikiFeet of it all comes up now all the time in tabloidy or late night celebrity interviews. But I will say the joke is kind of already getting old, and maybe I shouldn't say that halfway through an episode on foot fetishes. 

Then in 2016, Only Fans comes along and boosts the business of selling feet pics and foot fetish content. I mean, that's the thing about wikiFeet too, is that it's all free content. Therefore, Only Fans puts a new spotlight on the possible money that could be made by selling your feet.

And since its feet, it's not as legally risky as sex work from the ankles up, so to speak.  Which begs the very important question in all caps, BUT WHAT ABOUT SEX WORKERS?

Foot fetish-related sex work is nothing new at all, and it also comes up a lot in BDSM. So to help me make sense of that, I called up Unladylike’s now – can I say resident dominatrix? I would like to say that, but I have not checked with Mistress Ma to make sure that I can call her Unladylike’s resident dominatrix and you know, I don't wanna take any chances. I don't wanna take any chances with her.

She first graced Unladylike earlier this year in our episode on strap-ons, and I just had so much fun talking to Mistress Mae about pegging, I figured, I mean, why don't I reach back out and see if she wants to talk about feet?

MAE LING: Hello everybody. I am Mae Ling. Some may call me Miss Mae Ling. I am a professional dominatrix based in Los Angeles and I make fun of people and, uh, but in a much more healing manner, uh, and hold space for them to explore their kinky selves. And I do it because it's super beautiful and meditative and it's really liberating to just do whatever makes you happy or like gives you pleasure. I think we need to live in a more humanistic world. 

CRISTEN: Ok. I have a question that I, uh, definitely never asked an Unladylike guest before. Are you into feet? 

MAE LING: I am not into feet actually. Um, I never have been. And it wasn't until recently when I started becoming a Dori that I started looking at people's feet.

So yeah, it just like never crossed my mind. And now, everywhere I go it, it's summer right now. So I'm like looking at everybody's feet and flip flops and I'm just like, Oh, those are pretty nice. Those are pretty nice. Oh, that one needs a pedicure. So it's like really interesting how it's changed, um, my life and my view or perspective of just like walking nowadays,

It doesn't turn me on. Um, but yeah, it's just something that I've never noticed that is now more on my, uh, mind. I guess. 

CRISTEN: Now out of curiosity, do you know of any women who are in like sexually attracted to feet? And I ask because based on the very limited data we have, it seems exclusively, cis men. 

MAE LING: Um, I guess my data is also skewed as a lot of my clients are men.

Uh, but I do know of some women, trans women who are into feet. So it's kind of blurring the lines there. but a lot of, Yeah, it's a lot of men who are into feet. Not too many women who, you know, wanna lick each other's toenails or lick each other's like webbings of their toes or the souls of their feet.

And I think I know of them who will do it, but it's more of that aspect of like, for fun. Mm-hmm. not like, Oh, this really gets me off right now, so let me do this type of thing. But I have met, um, this is an old partner of mine, uh, who are twins and they are both really into feet. Oh. And I feel like a part of it may be genetics.

Like I've, I know two set of twins who are both really into feet. 

CRISTEN: Really? 

MAE LING: Yeah. So maybe, maybe something on the Y chromosome .

CRISTEN: Researchers listening, do some twin studies please.

MAE LING: Yes. Or triplets. Yeah. Or even more. Who knows? So, but then I'd be curious to see twins who are women and men. Oh yeah. Would they be into feet or is it just the guy?

CRISTEN: Yeah, that could be a good control possibility. Ok, I’ve got some follow up research to do. So if we digging more into sex work and feet, foot fetishes are often cited as one of the most common kinks, how does that translate into just like sex work at large and like various types of sex work?

MAE LING: Um, well, let me just bring this huge correlation together is, um, when the guys who are into feet, they could potentially see your feet as your pussy, as your vagina. So when they're licking it, they think in their mindset that they are lick this precious part of your body right now. So, I like to play with the role of this is the lowest part of my body, that you are even so low that you are beneath my feet, cuz I'm more of a female dominant.

And so I use it more as a tease to get what I want and more of a, um, sense of, well, humiliation, right? I can walk all over a bunch of stuff and I'm gonna walk all over you too. Literally. Um, yeah. So there's so many branches to feet. There are those who are just the worshipers who are just like, see it as this divine part of this beautiful goddess.

And there are those who just want to be put in their place of like, I am lower than the ground that you walk on. Like super devotional, really. Um, yeah. Putting that person in the goddess viewpoint above them

CRISTEN: How does that experience that you've, that you've witnessed, the ways that the fetish sort of manifests, how would you compare that to maybe pop cultural depictions of foot fetishes?

MAE LING: Hmm. One that I'm gonna elude to a lot is, uh, Quentin Tarantino. He's done magnificent work. Clearly has a foot fetish himself and has incorporated it into his work so many times that I feel like he has definitely given other people foot fetishes now, but it's just like, so many unique subtleties with it, right? It's just an extension of your body, your power. It's not just the feet itself, right? Cuz you can look at feet and be like, it's just the feet, but it's like what you do with the feet. It's how you move the feet. It's how you use it in your power.

And so, yeah, I feel like in pop culture and like looking at photos, right? It's just a still image. It's just, it is what it is, but it can like kinda get somebody riled up if they start connecting with this photo in a certain way. So it's really more of like the storytelling. You want the personality that is attached with the feet.

It is art in a sense, right? When you just look at a painting and you're just like, Oh, it's a painting. But when you know the history behind the painting and now the artist is feeling and how the model is like, you know, standing there posing for X amount of time and you're just like, Wow, I have this greater, deeper appreciation for this artwork.

Now, same thing with feet. It can just be feet, but when you talk to the person who owns the feet, you fall in love with when she's talking, the way she wiggles her toes, the way uh, she gets excited and like displays her feet, you know, um, just to show her excitement and what not. So yeah, there's character to feet.

It's not just feet. 

CRISTEN: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, how, how do foot fetishes factor into dominatrix work?

MAE LING: It is one of the most common fetishes that will be requested. Um, but even if it's not requested, I still feel like people will bring it in as part of their ritual. Mm. With even individuals who are not into feet.

It'll be like you are greeting me for the very first time. In this moment, you will bow down and kiss. Place one kiss on the top of each foot, and then you will stay there and wait until your next order. So the person doesn't even have to be into feet. Right? But the person who is in charge will tell them to do this, um, greeting ritual or some sort. And it can be different for everybody, but yeah, that's how people say goodbye to me. We're done with the session, we're closing. We did some aftercare, and now you're back at eye level with me and with chatting and whatnot. But when we say goodbye, you get down on your knees and you remember where you belong, and then you kiss my feet and you say thank you, and then you go, you know, crawl away.

[AD BREAK]

CRISTEN: Now, when I reached out to invite you back on the show, you obviously agreed, and you left me with a cliff hanger because you said your point of view on feet is very much different than other dominatrixes. And I did not ask any follow up questions in email cuz I wanted to ask you here and now. So tell me what, what you mean. How so?

MAE LING: For a while I offered foot fetish sessions and then I stopped offering them because what I found was that people weren't worshiping my feet the way I wanted them to be worshiped. Mm. As a dominatrix, everything is about my pleasure, and if you do not satisfy that standard, you do not have access to that part.

And yeah, after a while I was like, Wow, all of these people are just really like trying to get off with my feet, and that's not what I'm here for. So now I've created it as a reward if they do well with other stuff. So I use it definitely as a reward now. I also have a different per mmm… love relationship with my feet being a, having a dancer background. It's uh, you know, people love my toe point, but it's also been in really tight shoes and it's like, you know, the toenails fall off and grow back and things are not the same. And I was made fun of by my siblings growing up. And so for the longest time I was like, Nobody's going to love my feet. My feet are ugly. And this is just like, you know what I heard over and over from my siblings, and it wasn't until I started offering foot fetish sessions where they were just like, Wow, your feet are beautiful. Well, this is amazing, blah, blah, blah. So that kind of changed my mindset. But now I'm like still tweaking it to be like, this specifically is what I want.

It's not just, um, to get people off. No, it's a reward. It's a part of me. It's a precious part of my body, the lowest part of my body that people would have access to. And so, yeah, it's all. That, and I feel like a lot of people will be like, Oh, foot fetish. It's easy. Everybody has a foot fetish. I'll offer foot fetish too and just like take the money or whatever and give them what they want.

But like for me, it's like, no, I don't care If you have a foot fetish, you will not get it unless you earned it. So now I hold my feet, which I had a negative relationship with to the highest regards because I know it's something that they want deeply.

CRISTEN: I love that. Almost like a foot reclamation. 

Can I, can I ask what if there are any examples of kind of what they were doing that was the, no pun intended, rubbing you the wrong way?

MAE LING: Literally rubbing me the wrong way. It was like, if I want a foot massage, I want a real massage. Not just like, Oh, let me touch your feet because I gotta touch your feet now. No, there's like certain touch that you get where you're like ew, You're literally just taking from me and that feels disgusting.

I would rather walk on shit than have you touch my feet right now and then I'll just slide the shit all over your face cuz that's how gross the touch you're giving me is. Yeah, like I don't want it. So I feel like if people are really into something, maybe they should go on YouTube and learn how to give a good foot massage. How to take care of feet, how to wash feet. You know, it's like a whole long process of stuff. So, yeah, I definitely think that if you have a specific fetish and you want that as a reward, you better learn a lot and earn it. 

CRISTEN: Yeah. Come correct. Yeah. 

MAE LING: Same thing with sex, right? Like you want sex, maybe you should learn how to touch a woman and how to please her. It's not all about you.

CRISTEN: So, ok. Getting into, I mean, you mentioned YouTube, you can go on the internet. Um, can you, I wanna talk a little bit about the foot pick economy. Um, I think wikiFeet at least has it kind of helped promote this idea, uh, that it is, it's almost like a get rich quick sort of option.

Um, and I say with wikiFeet really just kind of this pop cultural, foot fetish moment we are in for whatever reason. So from your perspective, um, is it possible to make a living just off of foot pics?

MAE LING: Um, it's all about how you market really. Yeah. Because again, an artist can sell a photo or a P team that they've made for $5 and then, you know, really time has passed, the career has changed, and now that painting has skyrocketed to, you know, millions of dollars. It's the same thing with foot pictures. Know your audience, market yourself in a way, and then you can do whatever you want really. it is sustainable, right? There are some people who are in the realm, sex work industry, and they, um, primarily are known for their foot fetish, so they're known for creating clips and content based off of their feet, and sure each clip is $10 or whatever, but if you want access to this individual now, right? That's where the money's at. So if you want to chat with her, if you want her to dominate you like on Skype or in person, that's where it can skyrocket for you, right? Because you've built this long term career out of this specialty,

CRISTEN: And what I'm hearing is it might sound easier in theory than it is?

MAE LING: Totally. A) our job is to make it look easy, right? It's to make everything look effortless. When you look at somebody's social media, you're just like, Wow, this is just their life. It's amazing. You're like, No, they've posed, they've like hired a professional photographer.

This is like their work. You know? This is like their open portfolio so that they are trying to get other gigs and whatnot, and it the same with everything else. It requires work. Every relationship, every friendship that you have now you have all these clients and you have to maintain your client relationship with them, right? Cause majority of your work is going to be regulars. Hopefully you get people that come back. If you're just trying to get newbies all the time, it's gonna be exhausting cuz you're gonna have to teach them and train them all the time about what your preferences are and what your protocols are.

So if you get people who are good from the get go, and they just continue looking back to you, then like, sure that's a somewhat regular stream of income, but other than that, you're just gonna be fishing for maybe good stuff, maybe not so good stuff. 

CRISTEN: I, so, to me, there is something, and this might be totally obvious to say, but it feels like a wild double standard to me, uh, that wikiFeet in particular operates out in the open and is almost treated as like, oh, this like quirky, quirky little site, and it's just feet. and the way that they operate fully in the open is by essentially moderating the site in a way to try to pull off the illusion that it's not a fetish site.

Not to mention there are a lot of photos that were not, you know, consensually submitted, let's say, to this site, and I think about that. And then I think about all of the like internet censorship and like financial institutions, just like all of the layers of shit that sex workers, the people who might be selling feet go through.

And it just kind of made me mad. Um, so am I being like, uh, too simplistic and or too cynical?

MAE LING: Um, it's a part of what the reality is as a sex worker. A; you could be annoyed and say that nothing is fair. which its not and, you know, kind try to fight for it, but it's a losing battle. Or you can just kinda roll with the punches and be like, ok, this is what's happening now and you know what we gotta start up a new or transfer over to a new platform and this happens day in and day out, right? Like for the longest time that life has been around and now they're flagging sex workers. Reddit is now flagging sex workers. And you're just like, I am an individual marketing on this platform just like any other brand.

And because it's sex, I am getting discriminated against. And it sucks, but yeah. It's the reality. Yeah. Like where else are you gonna advertise? You know, like where else are you gonna be? Um, because everybody does use that platform, and I can understand why some people don't wanna be associated with it. Right. But yeah, well, it's just, you just gotta smile and move on. And that's the part of being a sex worker thats difficult. If like you're gonna let everything hit you this hard, then you're probably not gonna be cut out for it. Cuz you just gotta realize that at any moment somebody could pull the plug, delete all of your content and say it's just against their new terms of service. Yeah. And you're like, Wow. It's just a picture of my foot. right? Yeah. And I had this taken down and they were like, Oh yeah, you can't because this is new. And I'm like, Hmm, ok, cool. And I'm not gonna like spend time to dispute it, you know? They said what they said, That's it.

You're like, why?

CRISTEN: I know, I know. I'm like, what is the, cuz there's no, I'm trying to think of a follow-up question, but, but there's no. It's what I was originally gonna say was, you know, the, is the wikiFeet of it all also just a relatively like minor symptom of a much larger set of problems? 

MAE LING: It is, but you know, people will still use it and sex workers will still use it because it has a lot of. Um, traffic, right? And if it has a lot of traffic, then people will be like, Sure, I'll risk putting something up as like an ad, and hopefully they will find me in some other avenue 

CRISTEN: in terms of this kind of mainstream foot fetish moment that we're in, and people talking about foot fetishes, does it seem like. I don't know. Do you have, I guess, do you have any, any perspective on like why does it matter or does it diminish sex work? Or is it just like, Hey, let's, let's embrace kink and live and let live? 

MAE LING: I think we're in the aspect of like embracing more kink. There's definitely more kink in media these days, right? It’s everywhere. And it's nice to talk about it. It's nice to normalize it. It's nice so that everybody feels a sense of like, I'm not weird after all. I belong. There's a community out there. I can find somebody who I can safely explore this side of me with, um, and not feel the shame and guilt and, you know, live with that and like have it wash over them and cripple them and to thinking that like they are lesser than.

Yeah. I say people are lesser than, but you know, I say it in a way that makes 'em feel like, Oh, ok, let's me squash all of that so that I can feel whole in a sense of like accepting all of myself and that is all of my kinks and whatnot. So I think it's super healthy if we have more exposure to kink and foot fetishes and.

Maybe foot fetish is the easiest one to talk about, right? Because it's very accessible. People can go shoe shopping and be like, Oh wow, this is so naughty, Um, rather than like something that's a little bit harsher, but by pushing it in the meter a little bit more this way we can push it a little bit further, include other, um, fetishes and whatnot. Um, foot fetish is easily, um, tied in with other stuff, so you can use it with, tie it in with like shoes, socks, used socks, people love used socks.

Um, used shoes, you know, like I walked around and traveled with these pair of shoes for four years. And I was like, ok, I'm ready to give 'em up. Who's going to be the biggest bidder for these? And it's a sense of like smell. It captures all of the sweat and it's like, you know how many people wash their shoes, right?

Yeah. Especially if you're traveling, you're not gonna wash 'em or whatever. So it's like kind of like in the same aspect of like used panties, they're just like, Wow, this is like. Got all of her smell in it. And I think that's great. You know, like it's harmless. It's a shoe, whatever. Go ahead. Have fun with it. Smell it.

CRISTEN: Is there anything I haven't asked you about feet and foot fetishes and sex work that you wanna make sure listeners know? 

MAE LING: Um, I would like to cover that it's not just about, or reiterate about the way the feet looks. It's the personality, it's the person it's connected to. But there are some people who are really into like high arches or you know, like flat foot or like some people like weird feet who are like, Let's get into bunions. You know, they're, they like really fetishize about it. And I'm just like, Good for you. Because everybody on every spectrum of whoever has feet is going to feel loved and I think that's really important to feel that way, right? To be like, or the person who has the feet, who like me back then used to hate them, now have people who love my feet.

I think it's a really, a good feeling to have that. So, Yeah, just owning your body. It's a part of body acceptance and body positivity. Being like, This is my body, this is my feet, and loving it. And once you own it, you can literally just find your audience, find your, you know, whoever to market to. And they're gonna be like, Wow, her feet are amazing.

It might not be the feet for you, but like for somebody else, it's like the shit.

[OUTRO MUSIC]

CRISTEN: Unladies, just to make this episode all about me for a second, I started off with this whole bit on how unappealing my own feet are and I'm leaving it with a new appreciation. like yes, I have learned a lot about wikiFeet and foot fetishes and also thanks to Mistress Mae, I'm gonna start exercising more body positivity right down to my crooked toes.

And I will tell you, this was not the personal conclusion at least that I was expecting to take. The show never ceases to surprise.

You can follow Mistress Mae on Twitter @missmaeling and Instagram @adorabledomme. You can also follow Unladylike on Twitter, Instagram, and TikTok @UnladylikeMedia.

There was so much about foot fetishes I didn't even touch. So, uh, fill me in friends on any follow up thoughts that you have. For weekly bonus episodes, full interviews with our guests and me in the comments, join the Unladylike Patreon for five single dollar bills. Each month I come door to door and only accept five single dollar bills. So hope you've got some cash on hand. Go to patreon.com/unladylikemedia.

Unladylike is a Starburns Audio production, written and executive produced by me, Cristen Conger. Rebecca Steinberg is our senior producer. Katherine Calligori is our associate producer. Engineering and post production is by Ali Nikou. Our music is by Flamingo Shadow, Amit May Cohen and Sarah Tudzen.

And til next week…

CRISTEN: I have one last question. For you that we ask all our guests, which means you've already answered this question so you get to answer it again. What is the most unladylike thing about you? 

MAE LING: The most unladylike thing about me, I guess in this moment, per se, after Burning Man. Um, I was in a camp of a lot of vegans, So we had a very high, uh, bean diet to get all of our protein So I've definitely been very gassy

CRISTEN: Oh, that's great.

MAE LING: Which is, you know, what part of your body and you're just like, I'm gonna own it. I'm not gonna say, Excuse me, fuck it. I'm gonna do what makes me feel good, which is release it.