Transcript | Ep. 98: The Power of Ass with Big Freedia

Big Freedia: When you bouncing, you are working it out. You are twerking, shaking, wiggling, wobbling, Peter Panning, and hustling. You are working it out, girlfriend. And it's so ladylike.

[Theme music]

Cristen: Caroline, lemme set a little scene for you.

Caroline: OK..

Cristen: A little while back when we were prepping to interview today's guest, Big Freedia —

Caroline: — the Queen Diva of bounce, yes

Cristen: Well, to get myself in a Freedia state of mind, I started listening to her newest EP, Louder, which came out in March. And Caroline literally, as soon as the music hit my ears, it was like I was possessed. I just started dancing and, yes, poppin it and working it out and flailing my arms and my titties were flapping!

Caroline: Oh!

Cristen: It was like - yeah because you know what? I also wasn’t wearing a bra, thank you very much, and it was the most I had moved my body like that during this whole pandemic

Caroline: I’m impressed! I mean, as you know, it takes an inadvisable amount of alcohol to get me dancing. But if Big Freedia tells me to put shake my in the air, I'm gonna!

Big Freedia: My name is Big Freedia the Queen Diva. You're besta believe-a. I'm from New Orleans, Louisiana, and I am a bounce music superstar.

[Song Clip: “Duffy”]

Big Freedia: So for me, when I explain Bounce, it's a New Orleans based music that was is a subgenre of hip hop. It's Up-Tempo, it's heavy bass, is call and response type music. It has a lot to deal with moving the body, shaking the ass and making you sweat a whole lot.

Caroline: That was a clip from Big Freedia’s 2013 single, “Duffy” — which is Freedia-speak for ‘go hard or go home,’ — and that’s exactly what she’s done over the past 20 years to ascend the throne of Queen Diva of bounce.

Cristen: In case you aren’t familiar with the genre, bounce music was born in the early 90s in the New Orleans neighborhoods where Freedia grew up

Caroline: In 2005, those same neighborhoods were devastated by Hurricane Katrina. But instead of drowning out bounce, the disaster set the genre — and Big Freedia — on course for a breakout.

Cristen: Now, 15 years later, Even if you don't know her by name, you've probably heard Big Freedia’s features on Beyonce’s Formation and Drake’s Nice for What. She's also collaborated with the likes of Diplo, Kesha, Lizzo and Icona Pop. But regardless of how big Big Freedia gets, you besta believe, she'll always be a hometown girl.

Big Freedia: Until I die, I will rep New Orleans and the people there have paved the way for me to even be in the position that I'm in. My city has always had my back. And until that changes, I'm gonna rep them until the day I die.

Caroline: So today, we’re talking with Big Freedia about the resilience of bounce music, the power of the ass, and where it all started: New Orleans.

[Stinger]

Big Freedia: [barking] All right, babies. Alright. Alright. Calm down. So that's the five babies, honey, Rita, Sensation, Yonce, Royal and Faryal. Four girls and one boy,

Cristen: We talked to Freedia and her five dogs from her home in New Orleans.

Big Freedia: And they are a hot mess right now because they are in heat. It is some stuff going on in here. I'm ready to whip all of them ass.

Cristen: Big Freedia grew up in public housing in the city’s Third Ward and was super close with her family and neighbors. As a kid, Freedia pitched in with her mom’s hairdressing business, helped her aunt organize second-line parades, and sang in her church’s gospel choir every Sunday.

Caroline: When she was in middle school in the early 90s, a new genre called bounce was starting to pop off in her neighborhood. It sounded like hip hop mixed with New Orleans brass band beats and Mardi Gras parade chants.

Big Freedia: Girl, they was playing it like at the, you know, in our community and it was playing it at the block parties and at like the middle school dances. And baby, you hear that beat come only you hear that boom and you'll hear that trigger man

[MUX - Triggerman Clip]

Big Freedia: or that brown beat

[MUX - Brown Beat Clip]

Big Freedia: them cheeky black claps.

[MUX - Cheeky Black Clap Clip]

Big Freedia: And you know the party was starting to get hype and people thought to go crazy. All the girls thought and they’re running they started to twerk. So I'm getting excited. Like I’m shaking right now. My legs were shaking and my hands are moving because I'm I'm picturing it back then, you know, I have my hands on the floor and my feet on the wall and I'm upside down, like shaking it just when you heard it is just like infectious. Everybody just started to spread, you know, and we were just all, you know, in our own rhythm and our own motion.

Cristen: When Freedia was around 20, in the late 90s, her longtime friend Katey Red emerged as the first trans bounce rapper — and basically became the godmother of the genre. Watching Katey Red onstage really changed Freedia’s life

[MUX - Katey Red]

Big Freedia: We were friends before she started doing the music. And to see her first doing the music I was so happy and so excited because it's like, damn my friend doing this, you know what I'm saying? And she the first gay girl in New Orleans. Like, this is big. This is a part of history. This is you know, this is a tone setter. It was the it was the start of something new and fresh for her and us as friends and New Orleans. And it was like an incredible moment. Like, I'm just glad to be a part of that moment.

Cristen: Freedia started helping Katey out, dancing backup for her, and helping her in the studio. Eventually, she started performing herself, using the nickname a friend had given her: Big Freedia.

Big Freedia: I was just like, I got to have a stage name that these girls is not gonna forget. You know, I want to do something different. You know, that everybody wasn't doing. You know, when I would do my stage introduction. I would say this the one and only Big Freedia, the Queen Diva, the Dick Eater, you best-a believe-a. And the crowd just go crazy. They're like, oh, my God, did you hear her name? Like bitch did you hear what she said? Girl she said she Big Freedia the Queen Diva the dick eater you betta believe-a, the late night creeper.

Caroline: When Freedia was getting her start on the bounce stage alongside Katey Red, every night at the club was an event. Sometimes, Freedia was running clubs seven nights a week with a different theme every night — like everyone has to wear blue, or sexy pajamas, or camo..

Big Freedia: Everybody came in they camouflage gear. I had real trees in and netting hanging from the ceiling and green and black and tan balloons. And you know, the cake was made out of soldier material. We had all combat boots and we had hats and, you know, we had everything like that when we did a theme party. That's how it was. Everything was the theme. And, you know, even back then, we had where we would do the drag show, where we would have the female impersonator perform as I was the host and we would have all the different girls perform. And in between each performance I would, we would have a little rap break. It was called, commercial break. Where once the performer finished performing, we'll say “Commercial break!” And then the whole club just bend over. You know, cause deejay gonna drop the beat. You understand what I'm saying like the whole club. All the girls just got up and bent over. It was some epic shit that was happening back there. And they we'll say. And then I come back on the mic and say. “All right. All right. Y'all hoes calm down. We bout to bring out our next performer. Now bring it to the stage. The beautiful, the infamous Miss Katey Red!” And then Katey come out in her long dress. With her hair up, pent up. And she'll sing, and everybody's handing her dollars. And she's mesmerizing the crowd. So it was moments like that that we created to, you know, help continue to bring the people out and build the culture around what we did and what we loved and our music and our style and the people that loved and supported us. I just kept performing and I kept getting better and better. My, my my stage was my practice. My audience was my my cheerleaders. So it was just it was moments that we had to keep going through to kind of develop our own lane and figure out, you know, how we gonna perform, what type of audience we gonna bring in. What they all say about us being gay? But once the girls started to accept us all around, we had everybody because wherever the girls was, the guys followed. And, you know, the girls of New Orleans is what helped us, what protected us and what made us become who we are. And then once we had approval from all the girls, you know what they say, where pussy follow the dicks shall be right behind.

Cristen: Got that sewn on a pillow?

Big Freedia: For real, though.

Cristen: What what brought the girls out, though?

Big Freedia: The sound of the music brought the girls out. And it was the girls in our neighborhood. It was just it was just word of mouth, you know, word of mouth. Oh, girl. You heard that song by Big Freedia. Oh, you heard that song by Katy Red. They got this new song. They saying is they saying that, you know, and it's so it was just like infectious, you know, with you just like news. When news happen, when something happen on a news and it go from, you know, one state to another state, it's same thing kinda with the music when something's buzzing, everybody talking about it.

Caroline: Well, you also said that the girls, they not only, like, came out because of the music and the sound, but they also protected you. What do you - what do you mean they protected you?

Big Freedia: Well, the girls protected us because, like, if guys were, you know, want to like, call us names and wanting to pick on us or fight us, the girls will stand up for us. The girls would be like, “And we gonna fight you,” you know, like the girls had our back because every girl has a gay friend, you know what I'm saying? And a lot of times we had many girls and we were they only gay friend. It might be 20 girls, and I'm the only gay boy. And you think that they gonna let anybody jump on me and they deal with me? No. So it will be the girls had our back. The girls will be our protector. And even to this day, I've learned how to flip that in in many ways when my girls are onstage with me, I protect them. I don't let people touch them. I don't let boys get on them, you know, I don't let people disrespect them. I let them feel, you know, free and be able to be liberated and express themselves on stage without being touched by anybody. So, yeah, we protect each other.

Cristen: Was that a skill that you developed over time in terms of kind of managing the audience and setting the tone of, like, the show that you wanted to have?

Big Freedia: Oh, yeah. That definitely took time. It took courage. It took not knowing the outcome of what might happen, of speaking what I felt, but I did it and I said it on the mic, and everybody in the club would respect my mind. And they knew, if I said it, that I wasn't playing because the way that I said it in the command that I had in my voice. You knew that I wasn't. I wasn't for no bullshit.

Caroline: So at the time that you were like working alongside Katy and throwing these parties, what were you figuring out about yourself and your own style and your own sound at the time?

Big Freedia: I was figuring out where my lane was. And that's why I created my lane with decorating and a certain style of rapping. I just was still figuring out confidence, and and
I was always the business one. So I always put the shows together. I always, you know, dealt with the money. I always, you know, dealt with the bookings. At the end of the day, doing all of that stuff, the business was the most important part of it because it all had to get handled. You understand what I'm saying? Like the performance was the least part cause I did that. That was just fun. That was the part that that came naturally. And we can say, “Aha.” And the girls gonna say, “Oh, yeah. These hoes. They mad.” We just had that naturally. And they knew what to say behind us. So the business part was where where I was, you know, I was I was the GOAT at. I will be handling the business in the day and by night I will be rapping.

Caroline: We’re gonna take a quick break.

Cristen: When we come back, Big Freedia flees New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina — and takes bounce with her.

Caroline: Stick around

[Stinger]

Cristen: We’re back with Big Freedia, the Queen Diva

Caroline: What is it about New Orleans in particular you think that really helped grow bounce music?

Big Freedia: I think it's just the spirit of the people, you know, the spirit of the people like the the vibe of the city helped to grow it, but also just when Katrina hit, the music spreaded like wildfire is because we were displaced all over the world and people had an opportunity to hear our music from the New Orleans people that were stuck in those places.

Caroline: When the New Orleans levees broke in August 2005, Hurricane Katrina floodwaters rushed into the city's low-lying, poorest neighborhoods — the same neighborhoods where Freedia and bounce music were born.

[Freedia calls into WWL clip]
WWL Anchor: Give me line five. Freddie from Lakefront. Freddie you’re on WWL.
Freedia: We're like under 9 feet of water here. We're trying to get out. We have a baby. It's five of us. We're very frightened.

Cristen: This is Big Freedia on the phone with New Orleans radio station WWL

Freedia: You know. We’re just trying to get out of here. We opened the attic. We punched a hole in the attic. But the helicopter keep passing us
WWL Anchor: You have some way to signal the helicopter.
Freedia: We have candles and we have a little lantern there that we keep on raising up our flashlights. But they're still not seeing. I guess their light is overcasting our light.
WWL Anchor: And is the water rising anymore?
Freedia: Yes. We on the second floor. And it's like two steps from inside of the whole house, from the second floor.
WWL Anchor: I gotcha. But they are monitoring us. So they have this information. So I cross my fingers and say a prayer, Fred, you know, do whatever you can do to attract the attention of that helicopter. And they should be passing this information along. Good luck to you. Godspeed. Thank you.
Freedia: Thank you

Caroline: Freedia and her family’s efforts to flag down that helicopter were unsuccessful. Eventually a boat came to rescue them and dropped them off on some dry land.

Big Freedia: And once we got off the boat we started walking to another area. And then it started flooding again. And they had this tall man in front of us about 7 feet tall. And this was a nothing but God. The man was walking in the water, and as the man kept walking, we were walking behind him. I kept saying, the man either getting shorter and shorter or the water getting taller and taller and and lo and behold, the water was rising, and the man was getting lower and lower.

Cristen: Another boat came along and dropped Freedia and her family off on a bridge, where they had to sleep for the night. The next morning, yellow school buses picked them up and took them to the Superdome. From there, Freedia and her brother decided to split up to find food.

Big Freedia: My brother went one way. I went one way. We said we gonna come back here in 15 minutes. I never saw my brother again until months later. So imagine just going through that, not knowing where your brother at. The coast guards are running around, they're shooting people who are coming up to them the wrong way. You know, they got dead bodies on side the road with sheets covering, covering them. They got old people in wheelchairs on side the road dead. It was just some stuff to see and I - I wouldn't want to go back to it. You know, I wouldn't want to go back to those moments.

Caroline: When Freedia was finally able to evacuate the city, things didn’t exactly get easier. She was shuffled all over the place - put on a cargo plane to Arkansas, sent to an army base and then a campground, and then eventually reconnected with her mMom and extended family at an old family house out in the country … well, briefly.

Big Freedia: I was just like, I cannot do this country. I have to go. I'm going to Houston, Mama. I am. I will see you when I see you. And that's what I started to re-get my life together in Houston. You know, I started to get a little furniture. I got me an apartment, you know, brought me a vehicle, and I started to perform and start to rebuild my life.

[MUX]

Big Freedia: People were asking Oh, what kind of dance that is? What kind of music that is. Can you teach me about that? Oh, I like that. You know, it will be all I ever had the Mexican girls in in Houston, and the Spanish girls, you know, like, oh, baby, I like that. Oh, come on, papi. Teach me what that is.

[MUX]

Big Freedia: They were tweaking to hear a New Orleans song, or they wanted to hear about a bounce song in the club. You know, we were going outside all these different places, but we wanted to hear our music so we would give it to the deejays. You know, deejays started emailing stuff. They started selling CDs in the different clubs. so it was those moments like that that really got the music to a whole different place, because everybody all over the world from New Orleans was representing the culture and wanted to hear the sound of New Orleans. And it is it is spreaded. It spreaded big.

Cristen: About a year later, as bounce was spreading big, Freedia moved back to New Orleans. But her hometown had changed. The hurricane had driven out half the city, and whole neighborhoods were practically wiped out.

Big Freedia: It was very, you know, traumatizing to see the hurt, to see just the pain and suffering that the city was going through at the time. But it was just like anything else New Orleans do. We prevail over a lot of different things. And we just started to rebuild and we started to clean the city and we wanted to, you know, rebuild our lives.

Cristen: So, just like it did at Freedia's neighborhood block parties growing up, bounce music started bringing folks together again to WORK IT OUT.

Caroline: Once she got resettled, Freedia started FEMA Fridays at Club Caesar’s, the first nightclub in New Orleans to open back up after Katrina.

Big Freedia: Everybody had a little FEMA money, all the Red Cross money. So, child, it was going down. ..So the club would have lines around the corner, you know, people from wall to wall pack, you know, people buying bottles and people who, you know, new outfits and jewelry. And they had done in a haircut and new shoes. Everybody looking all fly. It was after Katrina. Everybody had a little FEMA money, all the Red Cross money. So, child, it was going down.

Cristen: And it's funny to imagine everyone getting, like, obviously all done up to go out, but I would imagine everyone left a sweaty mess.

Big Freedia: Oh, most definitely. Like, you know, you have people that came in just to look, even just being there looking, you were sweating because the club was so packed from wall to wall, you had no choice but to sweat. It it was it was hot in the club. It didn't it didn't matter if you look cute or not. You came in with your hair in barrel curls. And when it came down, you had fought [unclear] curls because they hadn't fell down, you know.

Cristen: We’re gonna cool off and take a quick break.

Caroline: When we come back, Freedia bounces back big time, and we rejoice in the power of ass.

[Stinger]

Caroline: We’re back with Big Freedia, the queen of Bounce ...

Cristen: Now, little Freedia had dreamed of becoming a famous gospel singer. When she was around 10, Freedia was captivated by the singers at the little brick Baptist church in her neighborhood — their robes, their moves, their sound. She joined the choir and eventually became her high school’s choir director, too

Big Freedia: That was my life. I mean, just the way that we sung, the way that we represented ourselves, the way that our choir was structured with the moves You had to sit a certain way. You had to turn a certain way when we all, you know, went in together as a choir. Just imagine you have this choir that's coming. But it's like this miniature army that's doing everything in sync together, sitting down, standing up, turning. Like, it was a big thing.

Cristen: So how does performing in a gospel choir compare to performing bounce on stage?

Big Freedia: Well, I have a lot of similarities that I kind of compare. I'm kind of doing still the same thing. Like, when I was back then Back then, I was directing, you know, choirs where people will open their mouths by the sound of my hand and my voice. Now I'm directing asses where if I tell you shake this way, you shake that way, you know, so it's still the same kind of feeling, just a different music. I still feel a lot of things that I can remember from church that I still go see at my shows where, you know, a person might catch a moment in their day going off on stage. Same thing at church. A person my catch the Holy Spirit and they going off on a pew. So a lot of different comparison that kind of still have similarities, you understand?

Caroline: So, you've described bounce as musical rejoicing through the power of ass.

Big Freedia: That's right.

Caroline: So, what is the power of ass and why? Why does bouncing your ass have so much power?

Big Freedia: Well, it's it. When the beat's start knocking in the boom start rolling. You got to move, and your feet start to move, your hips start to move. But it's just something about when the ass move, people go, wow, is just it’s it's powerful, you know. You know, people look at the ass when they are looking at people any way they want to see their figure and they want to see the way they shape and how big the ass is. Is this small is it big, you know, so it draws people attention just normally. You know what I'm saying? When you look at somebody, you probably going to look at the face, first and then you're gonna go to the waist. Cute in the face slim in the waist, you know, cute in the face big in the waist you know, whatever it is. So you're drawn to it either way it go. But when the music comes on and you do something with it, it just it makes people say, wow, and mouths start dropping and you know the party get to jumping. It's nothing like an ass party.

Caroline: I want that on a T-shirt.

Big Freedia: Girl go ahead now. Hey, that's hot: Nothing like an ass party. You heard it here first.

Cristen: Now, wherever there’s Big Freedia and bounce music, there’s twerking. But wherever there’s twerking and white folks, there’s likely cultural appropriation.

Caroline: Specifically in 2013 when Miley Cyrus went viral for her ass shaking at the MTV VMAs and later released a single w/ Justin Bieber called Twerk...

Cristen: What was it like to see ... s-speaking of ass parties. What was it like to see twerking kind of go mainstream a while back.

Big Freedia: It was fun, to see it go mainstream, you know, to a certain degree. But it also was a little disappointing that it didn't come from the right source because, you know, back then I was grinding and I was already twerking and shaking my ass all over the world, making people aware of the culture. And then here comes little Miss Miley Cyrus thinking that she had them, you know, set the tone or something. But they have been twerking for for many decades now. And it's the style of music and dance that comes from West India, Africa, which is called mapouka, that's the black tribe of women has been shaking that ass for a long time, honey. And they they banned those videos and some of that stuff from back then. When these ladies could not, you know, put it out and people can see that they are their tribal rituals and things that they've done. You know what I'm saying. Like, I'm not the person who definitely created it or or. But I definitely and one of the the pave wayers of bringing the culture of New Orleans around the world and the style of twerking that we do, especially back in that time when Miley was, you know, calling herself twerking.

Cristen: That same year Miley tried to claim twerking as her own, Freedia set the Guiness World Record for most people twerking simultaneously with 358 asses shaking in New York’s Herald Square.

[Interview clip]
Interviewer: How do you feel? You holdin’ it in? I saw you! You sweatin
Big Freedia: I’m excited. I am so overwhelmed that this happened today and that we were way over 250. I’m just so excited to be representing New Orleans and to make this happen here in New York today
Interviewer: You just witnessed history, people. Big Freedia and these dancers just set the Guinness World Record for the most people twerking simultaneously! Make sure to check out Big Freedia, queen of bounce

Caroline: What's been the most rewarding and the most challenging thing about being big Freedia?

Big Freedia: The most rewarding, um the love and support. That has been the most rewarding thing. The most challenging thing is uh being so known. You know, it's it's a challenge being so known. It's like there's no, you know, real there's really no moment to yourself. You understand what I'm saying it’s it’s kind of hard to. I got to really, like, go and shelter myself when I want moments to myself, because once I step out into the public, I'm I'm I'm a public figure, and it becomes, you know, they don't want to hear you having a bad day or, you know, you going through something. And, you know, it's it's all smiles and haze and highs and, you know, and people just don't understand it as artists you are human beings. And you go through stuff as well. And who want to get dressed up every day to, you know, take pictures. And so it just becomes a challenge. You know, it becomes a challenge and you have to know how to balance and still show love and be kind to your fans.

Caroline: So in your single Chasing Rainbows, you talk about praying for your enemies.

[Chasing Rainbows clip]

Caroline: Do you? And why?

Big Freedia: Yes, I do. Because God said that he will make your enemies bow to your footstool. And a lot of times you have to keep your enemies closer than further, because if you have them close, you kind of know what they are doing and what their plans are. But I just pray for them that they they changed their ways and their mindset and their thinking and that God bless them to do something different. And because I'm not sitting at home worrying about my enemies, I pray for them and keep it moving.

Cristen: Yeah, what what role does faith play for you just in your daily life and also.

Big Freedia: You hear me girl, everything is church. Every day, wake and bake. Say a prayer and keep it pushing, you know, pray and push. That's me every day, that's faith has a big part. I come from the church, you know. Everything is on faith. The faith, the size of a mustard seed so you can move a mountain. And so that's me every day. You know, you pray when you wake up. You pray when you go to sleep.

Cristen: So we ask all our guests this final question. And it is what is the most unladylike thing about you?

Big Freedia: The most unladylike thing about me, girl, y'all want me to be real with this one?

Cristen: Yeah.

Big Freedia: I mean, the big package I have between my leg is the most unladylike I have. Girl.

Cristen: Amazing.

Big Freedia: Y'all is too funny.

Cristen: Even though COVID is keeping her close to home, Big Freedia the Queen Diva is everywhere! Her new EP Louder is out now, her documentary about gun violence Freedia Got a Gun premieres on Peacock on October 15th, and her memoir - Big Freedia: God Save the Queen Diva - is coming out in paperback on December 1st.

Caroline: You can also find us on IG, FB and Twitter @unladylikemedia. You can also support us by joining our Patreon; you’ll get ad-free bonus episodes, listener advice and more fun at patreon.com/unladylikemedia.

Cristen: Nora Ritchie is the senior producer of Unladylike. Gianna Palmer is our story editor. This episode was edited by Abigail Keel. Shruti Marathe transcribes our tape. Our music is by Flamingo Shadow, Amit May Cohen and Sarah Tudzin. Mixing is by Andi Kristins. Sound design and additional music is by Casey Holford and Andi Kristins. Executive producers are Chris Bannon, Daisy Rosario and Unladylike Media.

Caroline: This podcast was created by your hosts, Caroline Ervin

Cristen: And Cristen Conger of Unladylike Media.

Caroline: Next week…

Amy: And so the effect is the anti-abortion movement has not successfully overturned Roe, but they've made Roe meaningless in more and more communities across the country. So the right to abortion exists on paper. But what does it mean if there's no clinic near you and you can't travel anywhere and you have to wait so many days? Like, so what? It's an abstract right that actually has no meaning in your your life. That's been their strategy over the last few decades. Amy [00:31:22] And it worked for a long period of time, really, until Whole Women's Health knocked ‘em down in the Supreme Court in 2016.

Caroline: We’re talking to Amy Hagstrom Miller, CEO and founder of Whole Women’s Health Clinic about how to build an abortion clinic.

Cristen: You won’t want to miss this episode — or any episode in our new season!! Make sure you’re subscribed to Unladylike. Find us in stitcher, spotify, apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Caroline: And remember, got a problem?

Cristen: Get unladylike. And put on some Big Freedia!